Another point of view on the disputed territories

[Marc Peterson]

Peter Vandermeulen suggested that I post here after reading a letter I sent him and some others regarding the Middle East Trip and paper. It doesn't appear that these views will be very popular here, but I'm wiling to cordially discuss them with anyone in good faith.

"I'm writing in response to the article in the June Banner in which you were each referenced. If there is a group e-mail address for those who contributed to the paper, I would appreciate you passing this along to them. I was disturbed by what I saw as half-truths and mis-representations and I hope to clarify some of them below. Contrary to the statements of some of those quoted, their point of view is very much the prevailing view in the media and is heard very often.

First of all, let's start on a positive note; I agree with you all that life in the disputed territories is hell on earth and a humanitarian disgrace. Also, I agree that the modern state of Israel is "not chosen of God" or in need of saving for some End-Times purposes. My disagreements were not influenced by Zionist preachers, simply by my heart and brain.

1) First of all, the Palestinians are kept in sub-human conditions for political purposes. Do any of you find it ironic that the wretched people you observed are "brothers and sisters" to some of the wealthiest nations and kingdoms on earth that surround them? These countries literally have wealth pouring out of the ground and yet find it more convenient to keep the "Palestinians" in the world's first multi-generational refugee camps to show the TV cameras and tour groups how mean the Israelis are. The U.S. and the UN have poured billions of dollars of aid into these territories and yet no one's life seems to improve.

2) The Jews have been living in the West Bank and Gaza strip for over 4,000 years of uninterrupted occupation except for some periods when they were massacred and chased out by the Ottoman Empire.

3) Are you aware that the Disputed Territories never belonged to the “Palestinians” and only came into Israeli possession as a result of the 1967 six day war in which Egypt, Jordan, Syria, and Lebanon all massed forces at Israel's border in order to "push the Jews into the sea"? The Arabs lost and Israel took control of the land as a buffer to future, promised attacks.

4) Did you know that the Palestinians could have had their own country as far back as 1948 had they accepted the UN sponsored partition plan which gave Israel AND the Palestinians a country of their own on land which Jews had lived on for thousands of years? The Arabs rejected the UN offer and instead went to war with the infant Israeli nation. Did you know that many of the Palestinians are Jordanian but were massacred and kicked out by King Hussein of Jordan in 1970 after an uprising?

5) If your complaint is about the security fence which Israel is finally building in the Disputed Territories, are you aware that it is built solely to keep the Arab terrorists out so that they can no longer self detonate on buses, in dining halls or pizzerias and kill Jewish grandmothers and schoolchildren? Attacks have dramatically dropped off since the security fence has been built.

6) Regarding your concerns for fellow Christians in these territories, I am with you whole-heartedly. You seem, however, to blame their current troubles on Israel somehow and not the fact that they are being systemically harassed and threatened out of their historic towns by the Muslim majority. Ask yourselves this: Would you rather be an Arab in Israel where they are citizens and are allowed to vote and are even in the Knesset or a Jew in any Arab nation on earth?

I am not trying to start a fight, but I admit I was angry seeing what I saw as a very biased paper that my denomination put out under my name. I would love a response by any of you to any of these points to start a dialogue."

Sincerely,

Marc Peterson

[Marc Peterson]

Hi Laura, did you have a particular piece that you question or the whole thing? I'd be happy to show sources, but I do think it's interesting that you feel the media has a pro-Israeli bias as I see it 180 degrees different than that, sorry to say. I'll do my best to show sources on anything you point out to me.

Thank you,

Marc

[Marc Peterson]

Hi Laura,

I thought you might want to check on a post I sent to the general blog this morning for some more of my reasons for my thinking as well as the sources you were asking about. Also, I did find Occupation 101 on youtube and will watch it as I can. Since I'm doing that, I hope you can find some time to view the film Relentless for some different thoughts on the conflict. http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-2533702461706761547&q=...

Shalom,

Marc

[Marc Peterson]

Hi Laura,

First of all, thanks for at least engaging on this topic. You are what, 19? and you are the only one so far to even engage so thanks again.

Now first of all, the Mr. Horowitz mentioned above is not the author you are thinking of. The one I reference is the Jewish representative to the UN who was sitting across from the Arab leaders as they said those hateful things back in '47 before there was an Israel (or a gaza). I guess we need to step back because I'm not even sure of your basic premises. Do you believe Israel has a right to exist? If they went to the original '47 boundaries, would you feel justice was being served? Maybe we can start from there and take the points one by one.

[Dan Stark]

Laura,

I can tell that critical thinking is not a strong point for you. I'll chalk it up to your youth. The Palestinians are in their situation because they are the bastards of the Arab world. Really. There are billions of dollars in Arab hands surrounding them. Fact is, it is very convenient for the actual Arab nations to have their "brothers" living in a gutter for the whole world to see and sympathize. It's actually brilliant. Islam has created the world's most violent fundamentalists, and they are given a pass becuase of the big, mean Jews.

I know this won't be popular with your professor, but try to think for yourself.

[Marc Peterson]

Laura,

I disagree with Dan's tone, but you should be careful about some of the terms you are using. "Ethnic Cleansing"? Really? I don't know of a single group, including Amnesty Intl. that claims this is happening. It's a very loaded term with nothing to back it up. Also, if this was simple racism, the following Harvard study would have turned out differently, don't you think?

--A Harvard study of Israeli Arabs indicates that 77% of Israel's Arab population would rather live in Israel than in any other country in the world.

The survey was conducted by the John Kennedy School of Government at Harvard University with the assistance of researchers from Haifa University.

The study was aimed at examining the relations between Israel's Jewish and Arab citizens on the State's 60th anniversary, and included 1,721 respondents.

The findings also revealed that a great majority of Israel's citizens (73% of the Jews and 94% of the Arabs) want to live in a society in which Arab and Jewish citizens have mutual respect and equal opportunities.

The study went on to show that 68% of Jewish citizens support teaching conversational Arabic in Jewish schools to help bring Arab and Jewish citizens together, and 69% believe contributing to coexistence is a personal responsibility.

[Tom Grainger]

Your post Marc goes against the grain of most mainline Protestant Churches as the root is a toxic brew of replacement theology and Arab liberation theology. The Sabeel line is a catchy cause for the new left and the spiritually bereft mainline churhes moving away from a God centered world view to a christo-philosophic/secular humanist/ pluralistic theology. The current state of my Anglican church is a sad example.
Never is heard the Jewish "Nakba" or 1948 tradedy where 3/4 million Jews were expelled from Arab lands without compensation - right of return ?? Good intentions for the fact finding trip but sounds like it was a fait accompli before the trip started. The real answer will come with the rise of Messianic Jews and evangelical Arabs worshipping Yeshua together & proclaiming the true peace yet to come. Those that bless Israel will be blessed and those that curse Israel will be cursed.

[Tom Grainger]

Marc - searching the CRC website I came across "Our view of Israel" by the Rev. Gary Roest and his explaination of "inclusion theology" which does sound much nicer than replacement. Thank you for making the attempt to broaden the CRC's understanding of Israel.

[Marc Peterson]

Welcome, Tom. I think we could use your help around here. Are you a Brit or American Anglican, 'cause I know you've had a lot of PC problems there too. I haven't had anyone really answer any of my direct questions or question my statements much but there may be some who only check infrequently so I'll stick around.

[Tom Grainger]

Hi Marc - we are Canadian Anglicans (eh) and as a denomination are headed down the very liberal path of the United Church. However as they ( the leadership) are not strong on doctrine hence the replacement theology vs dispensational is not a big deal. The Anglican Churches in the middle east must outdo the Muslim Brotherhood to keep the Islamists from beating on them & the Arab mindset has a problem with Jesus being a Jew so the liberation theology seems ok. Canadian Anglican Church buys into all this plus old British anti-semitism to operate at a committee level for Kairos, Sabeel, WCC etc. to be Israeli negative.
The local CRC church is very Bible believing and very involved with christian schooling so I was dismayed to see the usual, usual on this website regarding Israel. Keep plugging along trying to show the good Israel does with the CRC but as in other denominations the anti-Israel bias is spiritual. It seems Luther & Calvin retained the Roman Church anti-semitism which it did not officially give it up until Vatican 2.

[Tom Grainger]

ps Marc - we will be away on holidays so will look forward to any responses pro or con on my return.

[Tom Grainger]

Back again from visiting eastern Oregon & Boise ID - beautipful country. A quiet thread here Marc & I realize that many would strongly agree to disagree.
I suggest those interested see www.bridgesforpeace.com for a wider understanding of Israel's situation along with info on the Jewish roots of Christianity.