Ahmadinejad comes to the UN & dinner with Christian groups

[Tom Grainger]

http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/127692

The MCC & WCC are to have dinner with charmer from Iran this coming week and discuss how religion etc can bring about world piece. Too bad Hillary pulled her appearance from the rally against this monster & Palin had to follow. Very sad situation.

[Tom Grainger]

http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/127679

link on the Sarah cancellation. Wake up America ..... Hello... Hello.....

[Marc Peterson]

ZZzzzzzzzzz, ZZzzzzzzzz.......

[Tom Grainger]

The following response from Malcolm Hedding sums up my thoughts as the little man from Iran denounced the USA(big satan) and Israel(little satan) at the UN this past week.
Also the "Religions for Peace" includes the Episcopal Church & Evangelical Lutheran Church.
How about repentance, fasting & praying when facing such evil ?

Appeasing Wickedness
ICEJ statement on NY dialogue dinner honoring Ahmadinejad

Last week, the International Christian Embassy Jerusalem delivered a global petition to the United Nations demanding that Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad be indicted for incitement to genocide against Israel. On Thursday evening, we will follow this up by participating in the protest rally against Ahmadinejad's special invitation to tonight's dialogue dinner in New York's Grand Central Hyatt hotel, co-hosted by the American Friends Service Committee, Mennonite Central Committee, Quaker UN Office, and the World Council of Churches, among others. The following statement from ICEJ Executive Director Malcolm Hedding is being released to our worldwide constituency concerning tonight's event:

Once again, we hear of misguided Church leaders falling over themselves to give credibility to an anti-Semite, Holocaust-denying despot! Naturally, the Quaker and Mennonite movements will justify their invitation to President Ahmadinejad of Iran to meet with them at a reception by claiming the Christian basis of dialogue, reconciliation and fairplay! The reality is that these concepts of Christianity are abused by this invitation and, if truth be told, this is nothing short of the appeasement of wickedness. The Bible nowhere advocates this type of engagement and in fact warns against it!

Jesus did not talk with Herod because he represented a system that was corrupt and evil. He answered with total silence and indeed, on one occasion, derided him a "fox"! He knew the boundaries between legitimate engagement and evil systems dedicated to the destruction of God's people. Ahmadinejad has given ample proof of his radical Islamic agenda to remove Israel from the map of the earth and of his desire to strike at the "Crusaders", a reference to the Christian world and particularly to the United States of America.

Thus the more he is afforded respectability, the more he advances his nuclear agenda and, no doubt, scoffs at the na・ve people that fall over him and entertain him. One cannot help but remember how foreign leaders, including the Prime Minister of Britain Neville Chamberlain, rushed to Germany to sit down with Adolf Hitler in the interest of peace and dialogue. Some of them returned home and gave a glowing report of pre-war Germany and of the policies of the Third Reich! Sadly, history affirms that Hitler made fools out of them and used their naivet・ to buy time in order to more fully prepare for war. In the end, that war cost the lives of fifty-three million people, including more than six million Jews!

The Quaker and Mennonite Church leaders would serve the interests of peace better by calling upon the international community to take steps now to effectively stop Ahmadinejad in his quest for weapons of mass destruction - weapons that he will definitely deploy in his looming war against Jews and Christians! When millions of people again die, what will their reception look like and how will it be recorded in history? And, what of the smiling, full colour 'photo shoot'? They will forever be associated with the appeasement of wickedness!

Malcolm Hedding
ICEJ Executive Director

[Micah Schuurman]

As someone who is a member of the CRC and who works for the Mennonite Central Committee in the Middle East, I need to say a few things. What I say comes from myself and not from my organization. But, I sincerely hope that they would agree with everything that I am saying.
Firstly, I seek to follow a risen savior who said, "Love your enemies." I'm not sure where one should begin this process of loving one's enemies. But, I am certain that loving one's enemies does NOT involve calling them monsters or thinking of them as monsters. Doing so damages our ability to see the image of God in them.
Secondly, I seek to serve a king who said, "blessed are the peacemakers." When Jesus said this, as a Jewish rabbi, he probably used a word related to the Hebrew word "Shalom." The English word "peace" cannot compare with "Shalom." We can use the word "peace" to describe something as broken as a battlefield after a cease-fire. Shalom is something much more. It stands for wholeness. Is this vision of peace compatable with sanctions, essentially beating our enemies into submissive peace? Or is it more compatable with dialogue, reaching mutual understanding with our enemies?
I have some links to some MCC news releases that explain the true purpose of the dialogue as well as some of the results.
http://mcc.org/news/news/article.html?id=394
http://mcc.org/news/news/article.html?id=395
http://mcc.org/news/news/article.html?id=396

[Tom Grainger]

Well Micah - you have a point as Hitler, Stalin, Pol Pot, were all human and created in God's image however they chose to perpetrate & carry out evil and monstrous acts. Brother V.D. Boesch has in other areas pointed out very well the futility of appeasing the nasty intentions of those bent on destruction. I am all for dialog with Iranian cultural, human rights, Christian organizations etc however the MCC press releases seem to beckon us, like a seducing spirit into a blind alley of self delusion & confidence in humanity solving all the world's problems ... no worries God as we are in charge. The groups mentioned also have how I say politely, a strong anti Israel bias, especially The Rev. Miguel d'Escoto Brockmann ( ironic as his name sounds Jewish)
is an old school Catholic kind of guy. At least the little guy from Iran was candid about a one state solution to the Holy Land however he must be thinking it coming under the Islamic caliphate.

What can you say to a fellow like A. whom holds the firm belief that he will help the return of the Shiite "Mahdi" or messiah by bringing about a cataclysm ?? Any way thanks for sharing.

Mahdi - From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

For other uses, see Mahdi (disambiguation).
In Islamic eschatology the Mahdi (مهدي Mahdī, also Mehdi; "Guided One") is the prophesied redeemer of Islam who will stay on earth seven, nine, or nineteen years (depending on the interpretation[1]) before the coming of the day, Yaum al-Qiyamah (literally "Day of the Resurrection" or "Day of the Standing").[2] Muslims believe the Mahdi will rid the world of error, injustice and tyranny alongside Jesus.[3] The concept of Mahdi is not mentioned in the Qu'ran nor in the Sunni hadiths such as Sahih al-Bukhari.[4][5] Many orthodox Sunnī theologians accordingly question Mahdist beliefs[5], but such beliefs form a necessary part of Shīʿī doctrine.[4]

According to scholar Cyril Glasse, the advent of Mahdi is not a universally accepted concept in Islam[6] and among those that accept the Mahdi there are basic differences among different sects of Muslims about the timing and nature of his advent and guidance. The idea of the Mahdi has been described as important to Sufi Muslims, and a "powerful and central religious idea" for Shia Muslims who believe the Mahdi is the Twelfth Imam, Muhammad al-Mahdi who will return from occultation. However, among Sunni, it "never became a formal doctrine" and is neither endorsed, nor condemned "by the consensus of Sunni Ulama." It has "gained a strong hold on the imagination of many ordinary" self-described orthodox Sunni though, thanks to Sufi preaching.[7] Another source distinguishes between Sunni and Shia beliefs on the Mahdi saying the Sunni believe the Mahdi will be a descendant of the Prophet named Muhammad who will revive the faith, but not necessarily be connected with the end of the world, Jesus or perfection.[8]

The "hdi" of "Mahdi" refers to the Arabic root "هدی" which means "to guide". "Mahdi" is also an Arabic name

[Micah Schuurman]

Well, this is almost identical to a vast majority of Christian dispensationalists who support Israel with the idea of bringing about the end of the world and Christ's return. John Hagee gives me nightmares.
Also, you seemed to show some surprise at the idea that a Jew could be critical of the State of Israel. Many Jews see that some of what Israel is doing is actually going to be detrimental to Jews in the long run.

[Tom Grainger]

Hi Micah - back to the thread please - what Mr. A. has said , nuclear capability jointly developed with the Soviets ,
and his extreme Shiite version of the end times - Thanks

[Tom Grainger]

Hi Micah - agree to disagree, however I can see where you are coming from and do believe that your view does prevail at the CRC Justice Seekers & the MCC so God bless your work in the ME.